WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.359 When should you use episode numbers with your podcast? 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.480 Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast. 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:13.519 I'm Daniel J. Lewis. 00:00:13.764 --> 00:00:20.324 I have changed my mind since 12 years ago in episode 175 when I 00:00:20.324 --> 00:00:24.724 proposed the episode numbers were unnecessary for most podcasts. 00:00:24.964 --> 00:00:29.600 Now, however, I see more cases when you should consider using 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:33.200 episode numbers for your podcast. And it comes down to this. 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:37.679 Use episode numbers when they actually matter to your audience. 00:00:38.255 --> 00:00:41.774 Specifically, I'll share with you how to determine when that 00:00:41.774 --> 00:00:43.774 applies for your podcast episodes. 00:00:43.934 --> 00:00:46.335 If you'd like to follow along in the notes for this episode, they 00:00:46.335 --> 00:00:48.975 are a simple tap or swipe away or go to the 00:00:48.975 --> 00:00:53.134 audacitytopodcast.com/when episode numbers. 00:00:53.480 --> 00:00:58.280 Starting at number 1, use episode numbers for serial podcasts, 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:02.520 not just the podcast serial, although that is an example of this. 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.040 Think of podcasts where they need to be consumed in a particular 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:09.674 order. Episode 1, then episode 2, then episode 3. 00:01:09.674 --> 00:01:11.515 This could be like chapters of a book. 00:01:11.515 --> 00:01:13.435 This could be steps in a process. 00:01:13.674 --> 00:01:16.395 This could be something chronological. It could be a story. 00:01:16.395 --> 00:01:20.155 Anything where basically the audience needs to consume it in a 00:01:20.155 --> 00:01:21.435 particular order. 00:01:21.435 --> 00:01:24.439 They can't just jump around and cherry pick episodes or jump in 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:25.159 the middle of it. 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:28.439 They really need to start at number 1, then number 2, number 3, 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:32.359 and so on. That is perfect. That is a serial podcast. 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.505 And that's when you would want the episode numbers for your 00:01:35.505 --> 00:01:38.944 audience to be able to know the correct order to consume the 00:01:38.944 --> 00:01:39.665 episodes. 00:01:39.905 --> 00:01:43.344 Because even though you can do things in podcast apps like define 00:01:43.344 --> 00:01:47.984 something as a serial podcast, you can't assume that every 00:01:47.984 --> 00:01:51.750 podcast app will interpret that correctly or even that everyone's 00:01:51.750 --> 00:01:55.829 preferences will display the episodes in the correct order. 00:01:55.909 --> 00:01:59.590 By default, podcast apps display episodes in the order that they 00:01:59.590 --> 00:02:00.549 were published. 00:02:00.709 --> 00:02:03.670 And most of the time, it seems that they display the latest 00:02:03.670 --> 00:02:04.629 episode first. 00:02:05.105 --> 00:02:08.064 But what if you really want people to listen to your first 00:02:08.064 --> 00:02:09.344 episode first? 00:02:09.425 --> 00:02:12.465 That's where episode numbers can really help with that. 00:02:12.625 --> 00:02:15.905 And the episode numbers help people to know what order to consume 00:02:15.905 --> 00:02:20.544 the episodes in, especially when those episode numbers are 00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:20.500 prominent. 00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:24.259 And that's what I do recommend is when the episode numbers matter 00:02:24.259 --> 00:02:28.580 to your audience, make those episode numbers prominent, use them 00:02:28.580 --> 00:02:33.219 in the title, even putting them at the beginning of the episode 00:02:33.219 --> 00:02:33.620 title. 00:02:33.875 --> 00:02:36.834 I know you can gasp if you've been following me for a while 00:02:36.834 --> 00:02:39.474 because I recommended against that for years. 00:02:39.634 --> 00:02:42.675 It's within the last few years that my mind has really changed on 00:02:42.675 --> 00:02:43.155 this. 00:02:43.395 --> 00:02:47.080 So when that episode number matters to your audience, make sure 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:49.240 it is displayed prominently. 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.919 And the ideal situation for when that matters is when your 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:56.120 episodes need to be consumed in a particular order. 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:57.879 Definitely use episode numbers for that. 00:02:58.294 --> 00:03:02.534 Then number 2, and this is where my mind changed the most. 00:03:02.614 --> 00:03:05.014 And this is where I'm going to spend the most time in this 00:03:05.014 --> 00:03:08.134 episode because I want you to understand this and I want to 00:03:08.134 --> 00:03:09.974 explain this thoroughly for you. 00:03:10.134 --> 00:03:15.560 So number 2, use episode numbers if frequently referencing other 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:16.440 episodes. 00:03:16.760 --> 00:03:20.920 My mind changed on this because of looking at how other people 00:03:20.920 --> 00:03:24.920 use podcast apps and then critically looking at how I use a 00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:29.085 podcast app And also thinking about things from the way that my 00:03:29.085 --> 00:03:32.205 mind has changed and my perspective has changed about podcasting 00:03:32.205 --> 00:03:35.004 from engaging in Podcasting 2. 00:03:35.004 --> 00:03:39.270 Because when you look at Podcasting 2, we are trying to improve 00:03:39.270 --> 00:03:42.870 what a podcast can be, what it can do, and what it can provide 00:03:43.189 --> 00:03:46.629 primarily without leaving the podcast app. 00:03:46.790 --> 00:03:49.669 Stuff like cross app comments, allowing you to comment on an 00:03:49.669 --> 00:03:53.834 episode within the podcast app, and other people can read those 00:03:53.834 --> 00:03:57.435 comments within their podcast apps, not having to go out 00:03:57.435 --> 00:04:00.155 somewhere else to comment on the episode, but doing it right 00:04:00.155 --> 00:04:01.914 there inside the podcast app. 00:04:01.914 --> 00:04:04.955 The same thing, like, with the value tag, being able to give 00:04:04.955 --> 00:04:09.270 value back to the podcaster right inside the podcast app, 00:04:09.349 --> 00:04:13.189 accessing other metadata like the location, the credits for the 00:04:13.189 --> 00:04:17.430 podcast, the people in the podcast, and much more all within the 00:04:17.430 --> 00:04:20.790 podcast app and not having to leave the podcast app. 00:04:21.175 --> 00:04:23.815 So now do a little thought exercise with me. 00:04:23.895 --> 00:04:28.455 If I wanted you to go back and listen to my original episode 00:04:28.535 --> 00:04:34.300 where I talked about episode numbers in your podcast, I think the 00:04:34.300 --> 00:04:38.060 title of it was, do you really need episode numbers? 00:04:38.379 --> 00:04:41.259 How would you find that episode? 00:04:41.500 --> 00:04:45.020 I could tell you the URL, which is very easy for me to remember 00:04:45.020 --> 00:04:48.105 because keyword based, that's why I presented back in that 00:04:48.105 --> 00:04:48.745 episode. 00:04:48.904 --> 00:04:51.785 I suggested that instead of using episode numbers because most of 00:04:51.785 --> 00:04:54.665 the time that people were using episode numbers, it was to be 00:04:54.665 --> 00:04:56.824 able to reference an episode URL. 00:04:56.824 --> 00:05:00.319 They would say, like, the audacity to podcast.com/episodenumber 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:00.879 there. 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:05.279 But what I suggested in that episode was use keyword based URLs, 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.919 which I did for that episode and I've done for all the episodes 00:05:07.919 --> 00:05:08.720 since then. 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.599 So I know, for example, I didn't even have to look this up. 00:05:11.599 --> 00:05:13.925 I just typed it in because I knew this would work. 00:05:13.925 --> 00:05:18.884 The audacitytopodcast.com/episodenumbers takes you to my episode 00:05:18.884 --> 00:05:22.084 about episode numbers. Very meta. I know. 00:05:22.164 --> 00:05:24.884 But I just gave you a URL. 00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:28.939 And even if I hyperlinked that in the chapter or in the in the 00:05:28.939 --> 00:05:33.259 notes for this episode and you tapped on that, where would that 00:05:33.259 --> 00:05:34.780 URL take you? 00:05:34.939 --> 00:05:40.555 It would take you to a browser and open up the web page for that 00:05:40.555 --> 00:05:44.954 episode, potentially taking you out of the podcast app. 00:05:45.115 --> 00:05:48.314 It might open up a miniature browser inside the podcast app, but 00:05:48.314 --> 00:05:51.910 functionally, it's still detached from the podcast app experience 00:05:51.910 --> 00:05:55.270 because you're no longer looking at the episode in a podcast app. 00:05:55.270 --> 00:05:58.230 You're now looking at the web page for the episode. 00:05:58.629 --> 00:06:02.949 So for you to listen to that episode means breaking that 00:06:02.595 --> 00:06:05.955 experience that you're now detached from the podcast app that you 00:06:05.955 --> 00:06:08.754 prefer using to listen to podcast episodes. 00:06:08.915 --> 00:06:11.795 Now you have to listen in a different way because I've given you 00:06:11.795 --> 00:06:15.235 a reference to an older episode that you might want to listen to. 00:06:15.555 --> 00:06:19.610 So that is broken. It takes people out of the podcast apps. 00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:21.850 They either have to remember the URL. 00:06:21.850 --> 00:06:25.529 They have to rely on the link being there in the notes, being 00:06:25.529 --> 00:06:28.170 able to access the notes or the chapters. 00:06:28.250 --> 00:06:31.129 It depends on a lot of things and it doesn't really provide the 00:06:31.129 --> 00:06:34.544 best experience, especially since it takes them outside the 00:06:34.544 --> 00:06:35.584 podcast app. 00:06:35.745 --> 00:06:39.824 Instead, you might think, well, you could search for the title 00:06:39.824 --> 00:06:41.104 within the podcast app. 00:06:41.104 --> 00:06:45.024 Some podcast apps let you search for the title of episodes. 00:06:45.024 --> 00:06:48.064 For example, Apple Podcasts, you can search for the title of an 00:06:48.064 --> 00:06:52.120 episode and it will search the entire Apple Podcast catalog for 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:53.560 the title of that episode. 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:57.800 You might have trouble then finding my episode that I want to 00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:58.120 give you. 00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:02.040 And then you have to make sure that you get the title really 00:07:02.185 --> 00:07:02.824 correct. 00:07:03.064 --> 00:07:06.024 And you don't mess up or you don't misplace a word or something 00:07:06.024 --> 00:07:06.504 like that. 00:07:06.504 --> 00:07:09.785 And that depends on the search engine optimization of the title 00:07:09.785 --> 00:07:10.425 and such. 00:07:10.425 --> 00:07:13.464 That starts to get complicated and it's not a pleasant 00:07:13.464 --> 00:07:15.785 experience. And that's just in 1 particular app. 00:07:16.129 --> 00:07:19.169 Overcast, for example, which is my current podcast app of choice 00:07:19.169 --> 00:07:22.529 for listening to podcasts, does allow you to search for episodes 00:07:22.529 --> 00:07:25.569 within a podcast you're already looking at. 00:07:25.649 --> 00:07:30.134 So you could type in the episode title within your subscription 00:07:30.134 --> 00:07:32.855 to The Audacity to Podcast, and it would take you to that 00:07:32.855 --> 00:07:33.574 episode. 00:07:33.814 --> 00:07:36.294 But then you still have to type the title correctly, and you have 00:07:36.294 --> 00:07:37.735 to remember that title. 00:07:37.894 --> 00:07:41.175 So that's not really the best way, especially since a lot of apps 00:07:41.175 --> 00:07:42.694 don't have that kind of search. 00:07:43.050 --> 00:07:47.449 So instead, if I gave you the name of the episode, I told you go 00:07:47.449 --> 00:07:50.569 back and listen to my episode about episode numbers. 00:07:50.649 --> 00:07:52.889 I gave you the exact title of the episode. 00:07:53.129 --> 00:07:57.584 How would you find that in a list of all of my episodes? 00:07:57.584 --> 00:08:00.865 Now more than 400 episodes. How would you find that? 00:08:00.865 --> 00:08:06.305 You would have to scroll through and read at least to some level 00:08:06.305 --> 00:08:11.504 the title of every single episode until you found that 1. 00:08:11.779 --> 00:08:14.819 And along the way, you might even forget what you're looking for. 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:16.900 I say that because I've certainly done that. 00:08:16.900 --> 00:08:18.740 I've been looking through a list of things, looking for 00:08:18.740 --> 00:08:20.819 something. Okay. Where's that thing? Where's that thing? 00:08:20.819 --> 00:08:23.220 What is that thing I'm even looking for? I forget now. 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:24.660 So I have to go back and find, oh, yeah. 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:27.060 That's what I was looking for. Okay. Where was I in the list? 00:08:27.194 --> 00:08:30.714 See, it starts to get really complicated when you're using only 00:08:30.714 --> 00:08:33.674 the title to refer back to other episodes. 00:08:33.995 --> 00:08:37.995 So you would struggle then trying to read the titles of all of 00:08:37.995 --> 00:08:38.634 the episodes. 00:08:38.634 --> 00:08:41.914 And some podcast apps might even truncate the titles, making it 00:08:41.914 --> 00:08:45.570 even harder, especially if a lot of the titles follow the same 00:08:45.570 --> 00:08:48.610 pattern, like how to, how to, how to, how to. 00:08:48.690 --> 00:08:52.210 Then you're seeing that take up characters in the title and maybe 00:08:52.210 --> 00:08:55.009 the rest of the title is truncated, so it might start to get 00:08:55.009 --> 00:08:58.954 difficult to find the actual episode that you're looking for. 00:08:59.355 --> 00:09:03.995 This is the behavior I observed on other podcasters and on my own 00:09:03.995 --> 00:09:09.115 use in Overcast, trying to find a particular older episode of 00:09:09.115 --> 00:09:09.914 certain podcasts. 00:09:10.350 --> 00:09:13.950 Consider instead if I gave you the episode number, which I said 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:17.549 in the beginning of this episode, episode number 175. 00:09:17.789 --> 00:09:23.070 And imagine then if all the episodes in the list all are numbered 00:09:22.904 --> 00:09:27.144 and display that number in the same visual location, and that's 00:09:27.144 --> 00:09:28.345 done differently in different apps. 00:09:28.345 --> 00:09:29.545 That could be part of the title. 00:09:29.545 --> 00:09:30.825 It could be some of the metadata. 00:09:30.825 --> 00:09:34.585 Like in Apple Podcast, if you use the episode tag, which is 00:09:34.585 --> 00:09:38.029 technically iTunes colon episode tag, If you use that to put your 00:09:38.029 --> 00:09:41.149 episode number in there, then that episode number will display in 00:09:41.149 --> 00:09:44.029 a particular way inside of Apple Podcasts and also Pocket Casts 00:09:44.029 --> 00:09:45.789 and maybe a couple of other apps here and there. 00:09:45.789 --> 00:09:49.629 But the point is that it displays in the same visual location for 00:09:49.629 --> 00:09:53.334 every episode. So it's a number, a sequential number. 00:09:53.334 --> 00:09:56.934 And if all of the episodes display that number in the same place 00:09:56.934 --> 00:10:01.735 for each episode, then it is very easy to scroll through and find 00:10:01.735 --> 00:10:03.654 the exact episode you're looking for. 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:07.019 Like here I am more than 400 episodes. 00:10:07.019 --> 00:10:10.620 I'm telling you, go back and listen to episode 175. 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:15.500 Then you start swiping back and you might get to 250 and then you 00:10:15.500 --> 00:10:18.875 know, okay, I'm getting close. I'm about 75 away. 00:10:18.875 --> 00:10:20.475 Then you swipe a little slower. 00:10:20.475 --> 00:10:25.754 You get down to 200, 180, 176, and then you know, I'm almost 00:10:25.754 --> 00:10:28.875 there. I'm hot. It's getting hotter. It's hotter, hotter. 00:10:28.875 --> 00:10:29.914 There it is. It's right there. 00:10:29.914 --> 00:10:36.100 You can very easily find it because you can, in a sense, how far 00:10:36.100 --> 00:10:38.899 to go in order to get to that episode. 00:10:39.220 --> 00:10:42.899 If you're looking at episode 1,000, you know you've got a long 00:10:42.899 --> 00:10:45.620 ways to scroll to get to episode 175. 00:10:46.034 --> 00:10:49.235 If you're then at episode 200, you know you have a very short way 00:10:49.235 --> 00:10:51.794 to go to get to episode 175. 00:10:51.794 --> 00:10:55.875 When the episode numbers are prominent and even front loaded, I 00:10:55.875 --> 00:10:57.714 know, gasp at that if you want to. 00:10:57.920 --> 00:11:01.120 But if the episode numbers are very prominently displayed and 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:05.200 I've given you an episode number in referencing another episode, 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:09.120 then it's so much easier to find that episode from the episode 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:14.384 number without leaving the podcast app. That's the big key. 00:11:14.384 --> 00:11:18.144 Within Podcasting 2, there has been discussion about developing 00:11:18.304 --> 00:11:22.465 another kind of cross linking technology that could link to other 00:11:22.465 --> 00:11:26.705 podcasts or even episodes of other podcasts or the same podcast 00:11:26.705 --> 00:11:30.379 where when you tap that link, whether it's from the show notes or 00:11:30.379 --> 00:11:34.220 from the chapter, it would take you to that other podcast or even 00:11:34.220 --> 00:11:38.139 the same podcast, but take you to that specific episode even 00:11:38.139 --> 00:11:41.579 without leaving the podcast app. That is not currently possible. 00:11:41.884 --> 00:11:45.004 Yes, it's possible if you're in Apple Podcasts and you've 00:11:45.004 --> 00:11:49.325 provided an Apple Podcast link, or if you're in Spotify and 00:11:49.325 --> 00:11:53.325 you've provided a Spotify link, but you can't do that kind of 00:11:53.325 --> 00:11:58.019 smart detection for a link like that within a podcast app for the 00:11:58.019 --> 00:11:59.379 notes and the chapters. 00:11:59.620 --> 00:12:03.379 You're going to be linking people to a web page or to a podcast 00:12:03.379 --> 00:12:05.620 listing in a different app. 00:12:05.620 --> 00:12:09.539 Unfortunately, there is no current way to link to an episode 00:12:09.539 --> 00:12:11.220 within the same podcast app. 00:12:11.495 --> 00:12:16.214 So if you want to reference another episode in your podcast, you 00:12:16.214 --> 00:12:19.254 can reference it by the episode number, and that's so much easier 00:12:19.254 --> 00:12:22.855 for your audience to get to. And it's not only for past episodes. 00:12:22.855 --> 00:12:25.735 It could be for upcoming episodes where you know what that 00:12:25.735 --> 00:12:26.855 episode number will be. 00:12:27.190 --> 00:12:31.509 For example, I know that my next episode is going to be when you 00:12:31.509 --> 00:12:35.029 should not use episode numbers, and that's going to be episode 00:12:35.029 --> 00:12:36.950 number 421. 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:39.990 So depending on whenever you're listening to this, you can very 00:12:39.990 --> 00:12:44.345 easily find that episode, which at this time of recording is a 00:12:44.345 --> 00:12:47.704 future episode, but it might not be a future episode by the time 00:12:47.704 --> 00:12:48.745 you're listening to it. 00:12:48.745 --> 00:12:51.944 But that doesn't matter because you could find that very quickly 00:12:51.944 --> 00:12:56.985 in a list of numbers by scrolling to wherever 421 is. 00:12:57.459 --> 00:13:01.059 For any episode number I give, it would be very easy and very 00:13:01.059 --> 00:13:04.659 fast for you to find it in the list where the numbers are 00:13:04.659 --> 00:13:06.100 displayed very prominently. 00:13:06.259 --> 00:13:10.259 And here's the big, very important key without leaving the 00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:11.299 Podcast app. 00:13:11.539 --> 00:13:15.415 That is the biggest thing that's changed my mind is recognizing 00:13:15.415 --> 00:13:19.975 how much the Podcast audiences want to stay inside their Podcast 00:13:19.975 --> 00:13:20.615 app. 00:13:20.615 --> 00:13:24.054 The developers want to keep them inside the app as well, and 00:13:24.054 --> 00:13:28.840 that's the best experience. Provide it inside the podcast app. 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.960 My mindset has shifted on this primarily because of working in 00:13:31.960 --> 00:13:35.559 podcasting 2, but also in seeing how other people are using 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.679 podcast apps and then critically looking at how am I doing this? 00:13:39.144 --> 00:13:41.065 How am I finding old episodes? 00:13:41.065 --> 00:13:44.105 Or if someone tells me, you gotta listen to the episode of this 00:13:44.105 --> 00:13:47.225 podcast, how am I finding that specific episode? 00:13:47.384 --> 00:13:49.144 If they know the episode number, that's great. 00:13:49.144 --> 00:13:51.945 Makes it very fast to find it if the episode numbers are 00:13:51.945 --> 00:13:52.264 prominent. 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:55.299 I've spent the most time on this because this is the biggest and 00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:58.580 I think most important mindset shift when it comes to episode 00:13:58.580 --> 00:14:03.860 numbers is recognizing what is the best way to make it easier for 00:14:03.860 --> 00:14:08.014 your audience and so they don't have to leave the podcast app. 00:14:08.095 --> 00:14:12.095 And until the smart linking feature comes out in Podcasting 2 and 00:14:12.095 --> 00:14:15.294 until the podcast apps actually start supporting that kind of 00:14:15.294 --> 00:14:18.975 smart linking feature, I think the best way to then reference 00:14:18.975 --> 00:14:22.060 those other episodes is by the episode number. 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:26.779 If you don't frequently reference other episodes, then you don't 00:14:26.779 --> 00:14:30.300 need those episode numbers displayed prominently, and you don't 00:14:30.300 --> 00:14:32.220 need to speak them either. 00:14:32.300 --> 00:14:36.715 But if you do a teaching podcast, it's very likely you need to 00:14:36.715 --> 00:14:39.195 reference other lessons that you've taught. 00:14:39.195 --> 00:14:42.394 And I consider The Audacity to Podcast to be a teaching podcast, 00:14:42.394 --> 00:14:43.754 an informational podcast. 00:14:43.835 --> 00:14:46.795 If you're doing a comedy podcast, you probably don't need to 00:14:46.795 --> 00:14:48.315 reference old episodes much. 00:14:48.529 --> 00:14:51.649 If you're doing a TV show for young podcast, again, you might not 00:14:51.649 --> 00:14:55.410 be referencing old episodes specifically, like telling people you 00:14:55.410 --> 00:14:58.129 need to go back and listen to this or this is relevant to this 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:00.210 episode, you might want to go listen to that. 00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:03.250 But if you are doing something where you are frequently 00:15:03.424 --> 00:15:07.105 referencing other episodes, either past episodes or episodes you 00:15:07.105 --> 00:15:09.985 know are coming in the future, I think you should use episode 00:15:09.985 --> 00:15:13.024 numbers for that because it will help your audience get to those 00:15:13.024 --> 00:15:15.904 episodes faster without leaving their podcast app. 00:15:16.299 --> 00:15:21.019 Then finally, moving on to number 3, use episode numbers for file 00:15:21.019 --> 00:15:22.460 and folder organization. 00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:26.940 This 1 is totally hidden to your audience, but it can really help 00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:31.264 you with your organization, especially if you sort your files and 00:15:31.264 --> 00:15:34.625 folders by date modified and then you modify something that's 00:15:34.625 --> 00:15:37.105 much older, then it changes the sort order. 00:15:37.184 --> 00:15:41.024 So if you number your files and folders according to an episode 00:15:41.024 --> 00:15:44.750 number, that helps very easily order things sequentially. 00:15:44.750 --> 00:15:47.629 Like for The Audacity to Podcast, I'm pretty sure that every 00:15:47.629 --> 00:15:50.110 episode I've published that hasn't been some kind of special 00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:54.750 announcement, I've used the format TAP and then a 3 digit number. 00:15:55.105 --> 00:15:59.264 I also do that for the folders for each episode because I archive 00:15:59.264 --> 00:16:02.225 everything for every episode of The Audacity to Podcast. 00:16:02.225 --> 00:16:06.065 I save all of the master files and the final edits, and they're 00:16:06.065 --> 00:16:06.625 in a folder. 00:16:06.625 --> 00:16:09.504 I archive them to an external hard drive that gets backed up and 00:16:09.504 --> 00:16:09.825 all of that. 00:16:10.009 --> 00:16:14.970 And all of those folders are named the same way, t a p, and a 3 00:16:14.970 --> 00:16:15.769 digit number. 00:16:15.929 --> 00:16:19.210 Sometimes I get creative and you could consider this too, where 00:16:19.210 --> 00:16:23.210 you could add a hyphen or an underscore and then add a keyword or 00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:26.014 something else that describes the episode so you can remember 00:16:26.014 --> 00:16:29.615 when you're looking at that list of files or folders, you can 00:16:29.615 --> 00:16:31.375 remember what that episode was about. 00:16:31.455 --> 00:16:35.774 But still following that pattern of using an episode number works 00:16:35.774 --> 00:16:36.254 really well. 00:16:36.509 --> 00:16:40.190 This can also work great if you use PodChapters, my other product 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:44.750 over at podchapters.com, where then if you follow a pattern for 00:16:44.750 --> 00:16:49.870 your episodes, you can tell PodChapters to automatically apply a 00:16:49.870 --> 00:16:53.995 preset to your files, and that would be automatically pre filling 00:16:53.995 --> 00:16:57.754 certain ID 3 tags and setting certain transcription options and 00:16:57.754 --> 00:17:00.954 more based on a file name pattern. 00:17:00.954 --> 00:17:04.394 Like for the Audacity Podcast, I set it to whenever I upload a 00:17:04.394 --> 00:17:09.849 file that starts with TAP in the filename to automatically apply 00:17:09.849 --> 00:17:12.089 the preset for The Audacity to Podcast. 00:17:12.089 --> 00:17:16.970 It's a nice time saving feature, if you edit multiple different 00:17:16.970 --> 00:17:21.144 podcasts that then have their own patterns, like t a p and once 00:17:21.144 --> 00:17:22.184 and t r n. 00:17:22.184 --> 00:17:24.904 Those are all patterns I've used in other podcasts that I've 00:17:24.904 --> 00:17:25.464 hosted. 00:17:25.544 --> 00:17:28.984 So that would be really easy to upload that file and PodChapters 00:17:28.984 --> 00:17:31.704 would automatically apply the correct preset to that. 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.400 And then the episode number helps distinguish which episode that 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.039 is and you can add to that after that. 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.400 But keeping that pattern and using the episode numbers is great 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.880 for file and folder organization even if you never ever speak the 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:47.480 episode to your audience. 00:17:48.095 --> 00:17:51.934 A caution to this is if you prerecord a bunch of episodes in 00:17:51.934 --> 00:17:54.815 advance, you've numbered them all, and then you change your mind 00:17:54.815 --> 00:17:56.015 on their numbering. 00:17:56.015 --> 00:17:59.295 Then you might have to decide, well, do you renumber the 00:17:59.295 --> 00:17:59.775 episodes? 00:18:00.049 --> 00:18:03.329 Or you could even consider, maybe don't number the episodes until 00:18:03.329 --> 00:18:05.009 you actually publish them. 00:18:05.009 --> 00:18:08.130 And that's when you name their folders based on the numbers and 00:18:08.130 --> 00:18:09.650 such. That's up to you. 00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:12.130 And it really doesn't affect your audience because it's how you 00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:13.970 organize your own files. 00:18:13.970 --> 00:18:16.134 But episode numbers could help with that. 00:18:16.295 --> 00:18:20.775 Number 4, use episode numbers when you can't make better episode 00:18:20.775 --> 00:18:21.894 URLs. 00:18:22.055 --> 00:18:27.015 I use the example of episode 175 here where I know it was the 00:18:27.015 --> 00:18:33.539 audacitytopodcast.com/ episode numbers that links to 175. 00:18:33.539 --> 00:18:37.140 That's far easier for me to remember than saying the 00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:42.654 audacitytopodcast.com/175 because I wouldn't have known it was 00:18:42.654 --> 00:18:44.095 episode 175. 00:18:44.095 --> 00:18:48.575 I had to look up the episode from its URL before I could know, 00:18:48.575 --> 00:18:51.134 oh, yeah, that was episode 175. 00:18:51.375 --> 00:18:55.100 Consider this especially for podcasts where it just doesn't make 00:18:55.100 --> 00:18:59.339 sense to have a single keyword or a key term, a couple of words 00:18:59.340 --> 00:19:03.259 as a URL because maybe you've covered multiple topics from the 00:19:03.259 --> 00:19:07.580 podcast or it's just not something memorable for you or for your 00:19:07.580 --> 00:19:07.980 audience. 00:19:08.365 --> 00:19:11.804 But you do want to be able to give your audience a way to get 00:19:11.804 --> 00:19:14.605 more information from that episode, like the notes, the 00:19:14.605 --> 00:19:18.365 references, images, videos, downloads, whatever kind of stuff 00:19:18.365 --> 00:19:22.044 that they will need and they need from a browser, then it might 00:19:22.044 --> 00:19:27.549 make sense then to use the episode number in the URL, like the 00:19:27.549 --> 00:19:30.910 audacity to podcast.com/170five. 00:19:31.070 --> 00:19:34.590 But the caution on this, just like with the previous point, is if 00:19:34.590 --> 00:19:38.304 you record several episodes in advance and you change the order 00:19:38.304 --> 00:19:43.825 of those episodes and you have spoken that episode number inside 00:19:43.825 --> 00:19:47.265 of that episode, that starts to break things and it might get a 00:19:47.265 --> 00:19:50.464 little confusing, especially if you start out your episode saying 00:19:50.464 --> 00:19:55.430 this is episode 501. And then maybe you realize, oh, no. 00:19:55.430 --> 00:19:58.149 I'm changing the order of this actually gonna be 505. 00:19:58.390 --> 00:20:01.509 But you say that in the episode, it starts to get confusing for 00:20:01.509 --> 00:20:04.390 your audience, confusing for you. How do you manage that? 00:20:04.744 --> 00:20:07.465 And this is a reason, and I'll get into this in more detail in my 00:20:07.465 --> 00:20:10.904 next episode about when to not use episode numbers, but this is a 00:20:10.904 --> 00:20:15.945 good reason to not speak the current episode's number within that 00:20:15.945 --> 00:20:20.920 episode. And that could come to apply to the URLs as well. 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:26.599 Try to avoid having to speak the episode's number as its URL 00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:29.320 because you might need to change that number, especially if you 00:20:29.320 --> 00:20:32.775 record multiple episodes in advance or if you ever might have 00:20:32.775 --> 00:20:35.575 some kind of episode that you want to squeeze in between other 00:20:35.575 --> 00:20:39.255 episodes, and it's still a normal episode, so it might be 00:20:39.255 --> 00:20:40.214 numbered the same. 00:20:40.214 --> 00:20:45.494 So you don't have to do the thing like this is episode 500 A, and 00:20:45.494 --> 00:20:52.700 then episode 500 b, or 500.5, or weird things like that, 499.5, 00:20:52.700 --> 00:20:54.380 depending on which way you wanna look at it. 00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:57.099 You don't have to do that kind of thing if you don't actually 00:20:57.099 --> 00:21:00.299 include the episode number within its own episode. 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:05.164 But if you have to, you could use your episode numbers as an easy 00:21:05.164 --> 00:21:09.565 way to make URLs for those episodes that you're recording for the 00:21:09.565 --> 00:21:11.964 extra information to get from that episode. 00:21:11.964 --> 00:21:14.684 But I think there are better ways to share that information 00:21:14.684 --> 00:21:15.085 anyway. 00:21:15.369 --> 00:21:19.210 I highly recommend a keyword based thing or point people to the 00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:19.769 notes. 00:21:19.929 --> 00:21:22.970 Even if your notes, and I don't recommend doing it this way, but 00:21:22.970 --> 00:21:26.569 even if your notes are simply click here for the full notes, and 00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:29.450 that takes them to the correct full URL. 00:21:29.654 --> 00:21:32.455 That might display more prominently in the podcast apps, and it 00:21:32.455 --> 00:21:35.654 might be something that it doesn't matter what that URL is as 00:21:35.654 --> 00:21:39.015 long as it's there and they can tap on it or even link to it from 00:21:39.015 --> 00:21:41.815 your chapters like that you add with podchapters.com. 00:21:41.815 --> 00:21:47.250 And then number 5, use episode numbers correctly and efficiently 00:21:47.250 --> 00:21:48.609 in episode titles. 00:21:48.769 --> 00:21:53.809 There has been some misinformation out there about episode 00:21:53.809 --> 00:21:57.809 numbers in titles because of some things that Apple has 00:21:57.809 --> 00:21:58.289 communicated. 00:21:58.595 --> 00:22:02.515 Apple has said do not put episode numbers in your episode titles. 00:22:02.994 --> 00:22:07.154 But what they didn't do is clarify what they actually meant by 00:22:07.154 --> 00:22:07.875 that. I know. 00:22:07.875 --> 00:22:10.755 It sounds like they're saying don't put episode numbers in 00:22:10.755 --> 00:22:12.994 episode titles, but this is gonna blow your mind. 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.919 They don't actually mean don't put episode numbers in your 00:22:15.919 --> 00:22:16.879 episode titles. 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:22.159 What they meant and what they prefer is in the podcast app, Apple 00:22:22.159 --> 00:22:25.359 Podcasts, and that whole Apple ecosystem. 00:22:25.934 --> 00:22:29.534 They don't want episode numbers in the episode titles because 00:22:29.855 --> 00:22:34.734 they've provided a specific different tag for putting your 00:22:34.734 --> 00:22:38.335 episode number, and that's the iTunes colon episode tag. 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:43.559 And they've also provided to accompany and should go with this an 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:47.320 alternative title tag, which is iTunes colon title. 00:22:47.320 --> 00:22:50.759 And that's where the episode title would go without the episode 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:51.319 number. 00:22:51.320 --> 00:22:55.525 And the point of those tags is for them to be used together when 00:22:55.525 --> 00:22:58.244 you need episode numbers or season numbers as well because there 00:22:58.244 --> 00:23:01.845 is a season number tag. But the point is to separate the data. 00:23:01.924 --> 00:23:05.570 So instead of having 2 or 3 of those pieces of data in the 00:23:05.570 --> 00:23:08.930 episode title, they can be separated out and then displayed 00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:11.089 optimally inside the podcast apps. 00:23:11.089 --> 00:23:13.570 Like, if you look at The Audacity to Podcast inside Apple 00:23:13.570 --> 00:23:16.609 Podcast, as long as I haven't broken something in my feed because 00:23:16.609 --> 00:23:20.075 I experiment with things every now and then, you should see the 00:23:20.075 --> 00:23:24.394 episode number displayed separately from the episode title in 00:23:24.394 --> 00:23:29.515 Apple Podcasts because I have the title only in the iTunes title 00:23:29.515 --> 00:23:33.914 tag and the episode number only in the iTunes episode tag. 00:23:34.299 --> 00:23:37.980 But in the normal title tag, I've displayed both of them 00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:41.900 together. So it's episode number period space episode title. 00:23:41.900 --> 00:23:45.980 So if you're using a podcast app other than Apple Podcasts or 00:23:45.980 --> 00:23:50.045 Pocket Casts or the few other apps that use these iTunes 00:23:50.045 --> 00:23:53.805 namespace tags for the title and episode number, then you will 00:23:53.805 --> 00:23:57.325 see the episode number displayed right there with the title. 00:23:57.325 --> 00:24:00.684 That's because I'm doing something to support full compatibility 00:24:00.684 --> 00:24:04.429 and fallback options with all of the podcast apps out there. 00:24:04.430 --> 00:24:08.590 And unfortunately, some podcast hosting providers don't support 00:24:08.590 --> 00:24:10.670 this properly or they complicate it. 00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:14.190 And I've talked about this previously in an episode about the 00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:16.750 sins your podcast hosting provider might be committing. 00:24:16.964 --> 00:24:21.365 And 1 of those things is how they handle the episode numbers and 00:24:21.365 --> 00:24:22.404 episode titles. 00:24:22.404 --> 00:24:26.724 1 podcast hosting provider, for example, only presents 1 title 00:24:26.724 --> 00:24:29.845 field for you in an episode number field, and that's fine. 00:24:29.845 --> 00:24:31.204 That's the ideal way to do it. 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:35.619 But then they break that fallback normal title. 00:24:35.779 --> 00:24:39.380 So in Apple Podcasts and Podcasts and a couple of other apps, 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:43.059 your episode number displays nicely and separately from your 00:24:43.059 --> 00:24:43.299 title. 00:24:43.714 --> 00:24:46.595 But in all the other podcast apps out there, your episode number 00:24:46.595 --> 00:24:50.195 won't display at all because they're not supporting that fallback 00:24:50.195 --> 00:24:51.794 and the full compatibility. 00:24:52.035 --> 00:24:55.474 So that's why I'm saying use episode numbers correctly and 00:24:55.474 --> 00:24:57.315 efficiently in your episode titles. 00:24:57.589 --> 00:25:01.990 Go ahead and put them in the normal title tag if you can modify 00:25:01.990 --> 00:25:07.349 separately the Apple or iTunes title and the Apple or iTunes 00:25:07.349 --> 00:25:08.789 episode number. 00:25:09.029 --> 00:25:12.965 Separate those things in those separate fields and write the full 00:25:12.965 --> 00:25:16.085 title with the episode number in the normal field. 00:25:16.325 --> 00:25:19.445 But maybe don't do this on the website itself. 00:25:19.445 --> 00:25:20.884 And again, it depends. 00:25:20.884 --> 00:25:24.164 Do the episode numbers really matter to your audience, especially 00:25:24.164 --> 00:25:26.404 within that particular context? 00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:31.390 Like in my case, once you're on my website, I think the episode 00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:32.829 number doesn't matter at all. 00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:36.910 So it's displayed separately on my website, not in the title. 00:25:36.910 --> 00:25:39.549 It's displayed in some little meta information because of the 00:25:39.549 --> 00:25:42.684 theme that I use for my website, which is powered by WordPress 00:25:42.684 --> 00:25:44.764 still, and I use the second line theme. 00:25:44.764 --> 00:25:49.964 So if you go to the audacitytopodcast.com/ second line, then you 00:25:49.964 --> 00:25:52.044 can learn more about that theme and purchase it through my 00:25:52.044 --> 00:25:52.684 affiliate link. 00:25:52.684 --> 00:25:55.244 I recommend things I only believe in, and I use that theme 00:25:55.244 --> 00:25:55.565 myself. 00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:01.960 So a way to learn more about this and the very annoying details 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:06.360 of this is back in episode 359 or go to the 00:26:06.360 --> 00:26:09.960 audacitytopodcast.com/numbers in titles. 00:26:10.125 --> 00:26:11.484 Now you see what I did there? 00:26:11.484 --> 00:26:15.325 I gave you a URL, but between the episode number and the URL, and 00:26:15.325 --> 00:26:18.444 I gave you both, which 1 will make it easier for you to find that 00:26:18.444 --> 00:26:20.845 episode without leaving your podcast app? 00:26:20.845 --> 00:26:22.845 It's the episode number, isn't it? See? 00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:25.139 That's going back to number 2. 00:26:25.299 --> 00:26:28.819 If you share the episode number when referencing other episodes, 00:26:29.059 --> 00:26:32.419 then make that episode number prominent so it's very easy for 00:26:32.419 --> 00:26:34.900 your audience to find that other episode. 00:26:35.284 --> 00:26:38.724 Watch for my next episode, which will be episode 421 when I'll 00:26:38.724 --> 00:26:42.404 cover when to not use episode numbers. 00:26:42.565 --> 00:26:45.125 But before I go, special thanks to Brian Inspooner from 00:26:45.125 --> 00:26:49.945 toptieraudio.com who streamed 519 Satoshis to The Audacity to 00:26:49.944 --> 00:26:52.869 Podcast in his listening. Thank you so much for that support. 00:26:52.870 --> 00:26:56.630 If The Audacity to Podcast provides some value to you, would you 00:26:56.630 --> 00:26:59.910 consider giving some value back? Whatever it's worth to you. 00:26:59.910 --> 00:27:04.309 Go to the audacitytopodcast.com/ give back and give whatever 00:27:04.309 --> 00:27:05.670 amount you feel it's worth to you. 00:27:05.825 --> 00:27:08.865 If you feel like this advice is worth hundreds of dollars, oh, 00:27:08.865 --> 00:27:11.105 I'd love it if you'd give hundreds of dollars. 00:27:11.105 --> 00:27:14.065 If you felt like, that's worth a dollar. Feel free. 00:27:14.065 --> 00:27:16.304 Give a dollar. Stream a dollar. Whatever. 00:27:16.305 --> 00:27:19.569 The audacitytopodcast.com/ give back. 00:27:19.649 --> 00:27:22.450 Now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of 00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:25.490 the tools, it's time for you to go start and grow your own 00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:30.049 podcast for passion and profit, and maybe even use episode 00:27:30.049 --> 00:27:34.565 numbers again. I'm Daniel J. Lewis from theaudacitytopodcast.com. 00:27:34.644 --> 00:27:35.445 Thanks for listening.