WEBVTT

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I have a challenge for you this year.

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Complete your unfinished podcast episodes.

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Thank you for joining me for The Audacity to Podcast.

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I'm Daniel J. Lewis. Do you have any unfinished episodes?

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Maybe you've already recorded them, but you haven't gotten around

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to editing them.

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Or maybe you've started writing the outline or even the script,

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but you never finished. Then this is my challenge to you.

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This year, and I'm not going to say today, this week, or this

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month, although that would be great if you do it, but at least

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this year, and I'm publishing this still near the beginning of

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the year, this year, I challenge you to finish those unfinished

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episodes.

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I've got a few thoughts that I hope will inspire you for this.

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First, it's a quotation I heard long ago.

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If it'll keep, it'll preach.

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This phrase usually applies to holding up against scrutiny, it's

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often used in circles for pastors and sermons and preachers and

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such.

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But the first time I heard it was when I was at an evening church

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service, and the power went out several minutes before the

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preacher was about to start his sermon.

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We had already sung multiple psalms in the growing darkness

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inside of that church and the lack of sound amplification.

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But when it came time for the sermon, the preacher realized the

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kids were too restless in the dark.

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The audience wouldn't be able to hear the message without the

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sound system and even if the kids were perfectly quiet, and he

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would be extremely distracted by the environment, basically

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preaching to utter darkness, which that is quite a metaphor,

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isn't that? That's something to think about.

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So he decided to dismiss the service, and instead of giving that

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sermon, he said, if it'll keep, it'll preach.

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And he admitted that he had heard that phrase said by someone

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else before him.

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His application of that saying was that if that particular sermon

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remained on his heart after the scrutiny of time, then he would

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preach it again someday in the future.

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And he wasn't the normal pastor, so it wasn't just like he could

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say, hey.

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Come Sunday or next Wednesday or something like that to hear this

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sermon.

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It was he was going to preach on that particular night in place

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of who would normally preach.

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So he said, if it'll keep, it'll preach.

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So what I want you to do is look at those ideas that have been

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burning on your mind or that you've had on a list for a while.

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And if they've kept under the scrutiny of time, if you're still

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interested in those ideas, if that script still excites you, if

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you still want to put that episode out, then do it.

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Actually, finish the episode and publish that episode or however

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many episodes that you have that are still sitting there on the

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back burner. Try and complete those episodes.

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I have so many drafts in The Audacity to Podcast drafts folder

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along with an ideas list. I have so many things on there.

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I've often talked about when I first started The Audacity to

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Podcast and I was in my planning stage.

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Back in 2010, I made a list of about 35 episodes, 1 of the very

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few times that I wrote something on paper during planning

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processes because I usually like to type things out.

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But it was late at night.

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I was actually sitting in bed thinking about this because I just

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couldn't get the idea off my mind to start a podcast about

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podcasting. What a novel idea. Right?

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And so I made a list of about 35 topics of things that I wanted

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to make episodes about.

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I knew that I wanted The Audacity to Podcast to focus on pretty

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much 1 topic per episode and dive into that episode in deeper

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detail, but really focus everything around that 1 topic.

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So my list was a list of essentially 35 episodes that I knew I

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wanted to do.

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There are items on that list I still haven't done today.

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After more than 400 episodes, which should be a lot longer if I

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hadn't had to take such a long hiatus in the years, But I've been

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podcasting with The Audacity to Podcast more than 15 years now,

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and there's still items on that list that I haven't gotten to

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yet.

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And I continue adding to the items that I haven't gotten to yet

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because I think about things constantly.

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I'm getting ideas from random places and random inspirations, I

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put them on my list.

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Or I start drafting an outline because it can happen at

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completely random times.

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I just think, oh, these couple points would be really good under

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this point.

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So even before I recorded this episode, I revisited my list of

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ideas and I saw multiple drafts of things that I'd started

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preparing and some things I decided I want to do more research on

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that. I want to think about that more.

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I want to talk to more people about this before I publish content

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about it. I want to prepare this more. Certain things like that.

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And that's when I realized, wait a minute.

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Just that, that crisis that I face with my own content is a topic

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in and of itself and something that you've probably faced too at

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some point.

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And it might not be topics that you have a list of, but maybe

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guests that you want to have on your podcast or movies that you

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want to review or shows that you want to talk about or products

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that you want to test and review or anything like that.

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Look at that unfinished list of things, whatever that is, that

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unfinished list and try to complete those things this year.

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And a big step to doing that is my next point, complete the

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preproduction for draft episodes.

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If you're like me, you might have some episodes where you've

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actually started preparing for those episodes.

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It could be a guest that you want to interview and you've started

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reading their book or you've started writing a list of the

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questions you want to ask.

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It's a topic that you want to teach and you've started writing

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out your outline for that.

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Maybe it's some jokes that you want to tell and you've been

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trying to refine those jokes.

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Whatever kind of preproduction it is that you need to do to get

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that episode done that's been sitting undone for so long, work on

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that preproduction.

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That could be the planning, the preparation, the contacting of

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people that could be scheduling issues, whatever that is.

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Take action on those things and complete that preproduction so

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you can actually get into that production stage of recording the

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episode.

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And then you can get into the post production, which is the

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publishing of the episode after you edit it and do whatever kind

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of stuff you need to or feel that you need to do with it.

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But look at what you have in draft form, your draft ideas, your

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draft notes. Turn those things into episodes.

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I'm not saying you have to take everything and completely empty

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your draft folder or your collection of draft ideas, but I do

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challenge you this year, try to knock off some of those things,

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especially the things that have kept for years, like my previous

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point, if it'll keep, it'll preach.

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Those things that are sitting maybe just because you've been

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thinking, I want to prepare a little bit more for this.

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Well, set aside the time to actually prepare for that.

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If you need to do more research, if you need to schedule a call

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with someone.

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I was really inspired by this at Podfest 20 26 just recently, and

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I did an episode my previous episode, 4 17, was about some big

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takeaways from Podfest.

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And something I really liked during 1 of their they called it

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influencer meet and greets.

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And it's a really neat thing that they have for really structured

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networking where you move from table to table and each time you

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probably have a completely different group of people at your

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tables.

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Sometimes you might have 1 or 2 people that are the same, but the

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questions are different each time when you get to a different

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table and the conversation is led by someone.

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There's a timekeeper and all of this, so everything moves along

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very smoothly.

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But 1 of the things that they said is don't leave this room

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without an appointment with someone.

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Don't just say, let's follow-up, but actually make an appointment

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with someone.

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And I met a really nice young gentleman who does some podcast

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editing, and it turns out he's the son of 1 of the staff and he

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helps out also with Podfest.

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And he has an editing service and I have a product, PodChapters,

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well, 2 products, PodChapters and Podgagement that could be

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useful for podcast editors and service providers, especially

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PodChapters.

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Boy, if you are editing episodes for other people, PodChapters

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could be the perfect thing for you.

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In fact, there are several features in PodChapters designed

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specifically for editing multiple separate podcasts, not just

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episodes, but separate podcasts.

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Like, you can have saved templates that even automatically apply

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based on a filename pattern whenever you upload that filename for

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adding the chapters and the transcript to it.

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Then it can automatically apply these presets to your episode.

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So it saves you time, speeds up your workflow, plus everything

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else that PodChapters does. Check it out, podchapters.com.

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I didn't mean to make this into a commercial for PodChapters, but

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I did want to speak with this gentleman about PodChapters and

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Podgagement because I thought this could be a great service that

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he could offer for his clients.

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And not just something like, hey, buy my product so I can make

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more money and you make less money. No.

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What I wanted to do and the selling point for it was I said this

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could be something that could be an extra value for your clients.

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So if you have clients starting to think, I'm not sure if I'm

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getting enough value, maybe you add this onto it.

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Or maybe you need to increase their price, and this is something

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that you can include with that.

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So they wouldn't just be saying, hey.

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We're increasing your price for our same services, but they could

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say, we need to increase your pricing, and we're now adding these

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extra services included in the new price for you.

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That helps to justify certain price increases and such.

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So had this great conversation with him, very short conversation,

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and I realized this is someone I need to make an appointment

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with. So we looked at our calendars and we scheduled it.

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And we had that follow-up call and he was very excited about what

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Podgagement and PodChapters could do for him and his company and

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his clients editing for podcasters.

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And that came from not just a, hey, let's follow-up sometime.

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Yeah.

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Sometime doesn't really happen unless you're really good at

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following up. It was really good.

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As I've heard from SAS Academy that I was a member of for a

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little while, book a meeting from a meeting.

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Bam fam is what they said. Book a meeting from a meeting.

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Bam fam, b a m f a m.

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Try to do that with your own podcast or with whatever it is that

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you're trying to do right now.

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Instead of just reaching out saying, hey, can we try and find a

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time? Say, I would love to schedule an interview with you.

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Here are some times available. Please pick 1.

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Or here's my booking link. Let's pick a time for next week.

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Or are you available next week on this day?

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Give me some times that might work for you.

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Whatever your system is for scheduling, try and make it easy on

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your guest.

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Or whatever it is that you need to do to finish that

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preproduction for your drafts so that you can move those drafts

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into ready to publish, and then eventually published.

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Next, once you've recorded those episodes, move them from drafts.

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Now you've recorded them or maybe you've got several episodes

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like this where they have already been recorded, but you've not

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done anything with them yet.

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And it's not just because you like to batch record and then batch

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process, but these might be episodes that have been sitting

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around for a while.

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Maybe there's a little bit of an inferiority complex or impostor

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syndrome where you might feel like, this episode wasn't very

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good. I'm not saying you have to publish bad episodes.

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Although, there could be a place to do that, actually.

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You could even say, and your audience might enjoy this.

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You could say, maybe you've been podcasting for 5 years, 10

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years, whatever it is. You could say, you know what I found?

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I found an old episode that I recorded 5 years ago.

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And my voice sounds completely different.

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My production style was different.

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I wasn't as confident, but I thought there's still some value in

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this. And so I want to share this with you.

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Even though you've never heard this before and I did this a long

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time ago, I think we could still benefit from what was shared in

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this episode. And you know what? I'm guilty of this.

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Years ago oh my. It's probably been 10 years ago at this point.

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I interviewed yes.

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I actually interviewed someone for The Audacity to Podcast, which

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I haven't published an interview in I don't know how many years

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because it's just not my thing to do, which is kind of obvious

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because this interview I recorded with Chris Brogan, think more

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than 10 years ago. Yes. More than 10 years ago.

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I still haven't published it.

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And it's a very interesting conversation.

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And the reason I never published it back then was I just didn't

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want to edit an interview.

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And interviews don't really excite me, so I wasn't all that

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excited about it.

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So if you're in this place where you have recorded, then consider

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whatever that step is that you need to do to finish the editing,

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do that.

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Or maybe even consider publishing it with very minimal editing.

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You could do some bookend editing where you say something at the

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beginning to introduce the episode, like I mentioned earlier,

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that you can let people know, this was a very old episode.

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I never got around to publishing, but I thought you might enjoy

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hearing it.

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And then you say something at the very end, maybe you even end up

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laughing at yourself. Maybe you interrupt yourself along the way.

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Like, it's an episode where you shared old advice and so you come

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in.

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I hear Dave Jackson do this with some of his interviews or topics

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that he discusses where he will interject with extra thoughts and

00:13:25.754 --> 00:13:28.315
extra information. You could do that with your own content.

00:13:28.610 --> 00:13:32.450
Even if it's you monologuing, you could pop in every now and then

00:13:32.450 --> 00:13:35.410
and say and you could have a little transition sound or something

00:13:35.410 --> 00:13:35.730
like that.

00:13:35.730 --> 00:13:40.050
Say future me here or any whatever you decide is best for you in

00:13:40.050 --> 00:13:40.610
that case.

00:13:40.610 --> 00:13:43.884
But then you could say, I no longer recommend this, or I

00:13:43.884 --> 00:13:47.565
discovered that didn't work, or now I've discovered how much

00:13:47.565 --> 00:13:51.804
better this works and this led to this great success or anything

00:13:51.804 --> 00:13:52.445
like that.

00:13:52.445 --> 00:13:56.360
So you can build on the content that you hadn't released, or you

00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.720
could publish it with minimal editing. It's really up to you.

00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.679
The big thing is please don't feel like just because you've

00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:04.839
recorded it, you have to publish it.

00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.164
But if you've recorded it and you haven't deleted it, then maybe

00:14:09.164 --> 00:14:12.045
there's still something there that's worth publishing.

00:14:12.445 --> 00:14:14.845
Consider that. Maybe try publishing it this year.

00:14:14.845 --> 00:14:18.605
And maybe you will finally this year hear the Chris Brogan

00:14:18.605 --> 00:14:19.325
interview.

00:14:19.404 --> 00:14:23.360
And in fact, I am going to say something to my editor, John

00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.919
Buchanan, right now, and you're going to get to be a witness to

00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:27.279
that to hold me accountable.

00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.799
John, please remind me to send you my recorded interview with

00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.600
Chris Brogan so that I could finally publish that. Thanks.

00:14:34.085 --> 00:14:37.845
Next, discard what no longer sparks joy.

00:14:38.004 --> 00:14:42.164
This comes from the book, The Life Changing Magic of Tidying Up

00:14:42.164 --> 00:14:43.924
by Marie Kondo.

00:14:43.924 --> 00:14:47.285
She said, the best way to choose what to keep and what to throw

00:14:47.285 --> 00:14:51.289
away is to take each item in one's hand and ask, does this spark

00:14:51.289 --> 00:14:54.649
joy? If it does, keep it. If not, dispose of it.

00:14:54.649 --> 00:14:57.769
This is not only the simplest, but also the most accurate

00:14:57.769 --> 00:14:59.769
yardstick by which to judge.

00:14:59.929 --> 00:15:03.804
And that's from Marie Kondo in The Life Changing Magic of Tidying

00:15:03.804 --> 00:15:06.204
Up, which is a book I have not read, but I've heard this

00:15:06.204 --> 00:15:09.565
quotation, and so I found it, quoted it for this because it is

00:15:09.565 --> 00:15:10.284
relevant.

00:15:10.365 --> 00:15:13.884
Look at those ideas that you've had, whether they are simple

00:15:13.884 --> 00:15:18.259
topics, whether they're unfinished episodes, maybe they are

00:15:18.420 --> 00:15:21.460
completely recorded episodes that you just haven't gotten around

00:15:21.460 --> 00:15:25.139
to publishing, but you just don't feel like publishing.

00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:30.304
Well, look at that stuff and in a sense, think about does this

00:15:30.304 --> 00:15:32.945
episode still spark joy?

00:15:33.024 --> 00:15:36.384
Am I still interested in this topic that I wanted to do an

00:15:36.384 --> 00:15:37.264
episode about?

00:15:37.264 --> 00:15:41.745
Is this guest, this movie, this book, this resource, this

00:15:41.745 --> 00:15:44.529
whatever it was, do I still care about it?

00:15:44.529 --> 00:15:47.490
Do I still want to share this with my audience?

00:15:47.490 --> 00:15:50.450
Even if you care about it or care about that person, is it still

00:15:50.450 --> 00:15:52.289
something that you want to share with your audience?

00:15:52.529 --> 00:15:56.529
Does it still spark joy to quote Marie Kondo?

00:15:56.610 --> 00:15:58.644
If not, then maybe discard it.

00:15:58.644 --> 00:16:01.125
I'm not saying delete it permanently because you might still

00:16:01.125 --> 00:16:04.004
change your mind in the future, but at least discard it from your

00:16:04.004 --> 00:16:07.925
list and clean up your list so that you can know, yeah, don't

00:16:07.925 --> 00:16:09.764
really want to talk about that anymore.

00:16:09.845 --> 00:16:14.870
So discard those concepts, those episode drafts, those ideas,

00:16:15.029 --> 00:16:18.470
those unpublished episodes that you're just not really interested

00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:22.309
in anymore, especially if it's something you haven't recorded

00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:22.710
yet.

00:16:23.125 --> 00:16:26.485
And you try to record an episode about something that you're not

00:16:26.485 --> 00:16:30.485
passionate about, that's going to come through in your voice in

00:16:30.485 --> 00:16:31.845
the podcast. Yes.

00:16:31.845 --> 00:16:35.845
You can drum up some enthusiasm for some things, and there are

00:16:35.845 --> 00:16:36.884
some places to do that.

00:16:36.884 --> 00:16:39.279
The whole fake it till you make it kind of thing, which isn't

00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.480
necessarily about faking it, but it's more about forcing yourself

00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:47.039
to take action, to get some momentum going, or like I like to

00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.879
refer to it as bathtub theology or bathtub philosophy.

00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:55.014
It was when I was a kid, I hated taking baths until I got in the

00:16:55.014 --> 00:16:55.495
bathtub.

00:16:55.495 --> 00:16:58.134
And then you couldn't get me out of the bathtub because I loved

00:16:58.134 --> 00:16:59.254
taking baths.

00:16:59.254 --> 00:17:02.535
I just didn't remember I loved taking baths until I actually got

00:17:02.535 --> 00:17:04.454
in and started playing with all the bubbles.

00:17:04.535 --> 00:17:05.894
Then I loved the bathtub.

00:17:05.974 --> 00:17:08.615
And that could be it for you with some of these topics that you

00:17:08.615 --> 00:17:11.309
might feel like, I don't really want to talk about it.

00:17:11.309 --> 00:17:12.909
Well, see if you can try.

00:17:12.990 --> 00:17:16.349
See if you can spark that joy while forcing yourself to work on

00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:16.750
it.

00:17:16.750 --> 00:17:21.630
And that's a good self discipline as well to exercise your drive

00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:26.465
and motivation, your determination, your thoroughness to work on

00:17:26.465 --> 00:17:29.904
it anyway and get that spark of joy through it.

00:17:29.984 --> 00:17:31.424
This is something I sometimes face.

00:17:31.424 --> 00:17:34.144
I'm an ambivert, which means I'm in the middle of introvert and

00:17:34.144 --> 00:17:37.200
extrovert. On my lazy days, I'll be an introvert.

00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.240
And if I go to a conference or a social gathering, I might

00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.160
initially feel lazy and feel like, I don't really want to go try

00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.119
to meet people.

00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.360
I have to make an intentional decision in my mind and kind of

00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:53.894
like flip a switch to go meet people and decide, nope.

00:17:53.894 --> 00:17:56.535
I'm not gonna just hang out with the people I know, or maybe I

00:17:56.535 --> 00:17:59.335
will for a few minutes just to kind of rev up, but I'm going to

00:17:59.335 --> 00:18:00.455
go meet someone.

00:18:00.455 --> 00:18:03.174
I'm going to find someone who looks like they need someone to

00:18:03.174 --> 00:18:07.430
talk to and they're not busy or find a conversation I can join in

00:18:07.430 --> 00:18:10.390
on. And you might see me do that at conferences too.

00:18:10.390 --> 00:18:12.789
You'll see me come into a room, kind of look around, maybe

00:18:12.789 --> 00:18:15.509
connect first with the people I know, and then start moving

00:18:15.509 --> 00:18:18.789
around and talking to other people and meeting people and

00:18:18.355 --> 00:18:21.234
widening the circle of conversation as someone else comes up.

00:18:21.234 --> 00:18:22.274
And then it's like, hey.

00:18:22.274 --> 00:18:25.154
How about you come on and join our conversation over here?

00:18:25.234 --> 00:18:30.194
So sometimes it does just take you that extra energy just to get

00:18:30.194 --> 00:18:32.434
a little bit of momentum going.

00:18:32.514 --> 00:18:33.954
And I've mentioned this in the past.

00:18:34.330 --> 00:18:36.490
You can't even use AI for this.

00:18:36.490 --> 00:18:41.130
This is 1 of my first uses of AI or LLMs, large language models.

00:18:41.369 --> 00:18:45.369
Before ChatGPT was even a thing, I was talking about Jasper, or

00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:47.690
back then it was called Jarvis and conversion AI.

00:18:47.690 --> 00:18:50.945
It's a tool that's not so popular anymore, and it, I don't know

00:18:50.945 --> 00:18:53.025
if it really exists in the way that I used to use it.

00:18:53.025 --> 00:18:55.025
I now recommend Magi instead.

00:18:55.105 --> 00:18:57.744
Magi is a super toolbox of AI things.

00:18:57.744 --> 00:19:01.744
You get GPT, you get Claude, and Gemini, and a bunch of image and

00:19:01.744 --> 00:19:05.549
video editors, and AI tools all in 1 subscription.

00:19:05.549 --> 00:19:07.390
It's a great value if you like AI tools.

00:19:07.390 --> 00:19:09.950
But I don't recommend using AI to create your content.

00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:13.150
It can, however, help you get some momentum.

00:19:13.390 --> 00:19:16.830
You can ask it to give you ideas of what to talk about or to at

00:19:16.830 --> 00:19:20.305
least give you an intro paragraph about a particular topic that

00:19:20.305 --> 00:19:22.544
you're struggling to just get started on.

00:19:22.704 --> 00:19:25.105
And there have been many times in the past when I first started

00:19:25.105 --> 00:19:28.704
using what's now called Jasper if it even still exists the way I

00:19:28.704 --> 00:19:29.265
used it.

00:19:29.265 --> 00:19:32.065
But when I started using AI back then, there were many times that

00:19:32.065 --> 00:19:36.519
I tried it to just start something that I needed to write, and it

00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.200
gave me a sentence or 2.

00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:42.759
And then I wrote pages of content because I just needed that

00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:47.160
little push to get started, and then the joy started sparking in

00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:47.400
me.

00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.914
And I got excited about it, And I got the momentum going, and I

00:19:50.914 --> 00:19:52.195
started going with it.

00:19:52.195 --> 00:19:54.515
You could do the same thing with your episodes.

00:19:54.515 --> 00:19:57.555
Might feel a little bit hard at first to get some of those draft

00:19:57.555 --> 00:20:00.595
ideas moving down the pipeline of your production workflow,

00:20:00.595 --> 00:20:02.515
whatever that looks like to you, but try it.

00:20:02.750 --> 00:20:05.710
See if once you get into it, it then sparks some joy.

00:20:05.710 --> 00:20:08.830
And if it doesn't spark that joy for you, if you don't feel like

00:20:08.830 --> 00:20:12.430
it's something you want to talk about at all anymore, feel free

00:20:12.430 --> 00:20:13.789
to remove it from your list then.

00:20:13.789 --> 00:20:17.544
Before I go, I wanna give a special thanks to Joshua Liston for

00:20:17.544 --> 00:20:20.904
sending $5 and saying a little help for someone helping indie

00:20:20.904 --> 00:20:22.984
podcasters. Thank you so much, Joshua.

00:20:22.984 --> 00:20:26.744
And also $25 from Leslie Martin saying, if you ever get to

00:20:26.744 --> 00:20:28.505
Anchorage, Alaska, give me a shout.

00:20:28.500 --> 00:20:30.579
I'd love to meet with you and take you out to dinner.

00:20:30.579 --> 00:20:31.700
Well, thank you so much, Leslie.

00:20:31.700 --> 00:20:33.380
I'd love to visit Alaska someday.

00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:36.099
There are a lot of places I'd love to visit someday that I know

00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:36.980
would spark a joy.

00:20:36.980 --> 00:20:40.180
It's just a matter of actually getting there and the logistics of

00:20:40.180 --> 00:20:42.984
such. But thank you so much for those kind donations.

00:20:42.984 --> 00:20:45.704
These have come in from the past couple of months, and I just

00:20:45.704 --> 00:20:47.944
never got around to thanking them publicly for them.

00:20:48.025 --> 00:20:51.704
If you value what I share with you in the Audacity podcast, would

00:20:51.704 --> 00:20:54.680
you consider what that's worth to you and give back whatever you

00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.119
feel it's worth to you?

00:20:56.119 --> 00:21:00.599
You can do that at theaudacitytopodcast.com slash give back.

00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:03.960
Or if you want to buy 1 of my products, the big things I have

00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.440
right now are Podgagement and PodChapters.

00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:10.494
You can go to podchapters.com to help you add engaging chapters

00:21:10.494 --> 00:21:14.975
to your podcast within seconds or podgagement.com to help you

00:21:14.975 --> 00:21:18.255
supercharge your audience interaction and engagement.

00:21:18.335 --> 00:21:20.809
Now that I've given you some of the guts and taught you some of

00:21:20.809 --> 00:21:23.690
the tools, it's time for you to go start and grow your own

00:21:23.690 --> 00:21:26.809
podcast for passion and profit. I'm Daniel J.

00:21:26.809 --> 00:21:30.250
Lewis from theaudacitytopodcast.com. Thanks for listening.
